EPISODE 009 | BETTINA CAMPOLUCCI BORDI - THE DELICIOUSNESS OF RETREAT

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Written By Sascha Kaus
 
 
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“You need to be a magician, basically. That's your job title and a sprinkle of being a psychologist because you sort of need to be able to handle people's emotion. And there's a lot of emotion that is attached to food.”

- Bettina Campolucci Bordi

EPISODE 009 | Bettina Campolucci Bordi - The deliciousness of retreat

This is a very delicious episode with Bettina Campolucci Bordi the founder of Bettina's Kitchen, a food lover, a kitchen goddess, and a dedicated retreat chef.

Not only is Bettina a retreat chef, but her journey into food and nutrition has also taken her to many places and besides her busy Instagram feed and inspiring blog that both feature lots of tasty inspiration she has written two cookbooks. Happy Food - Fast fresh and simple vegan and her second book the 7-day vegan challenge.

Bettina is sharing her wisdom wherever she can so it's no surprise that she has founded the Retreat Chef Academy where she teaches others who would like to become retreat chefs or learn more about plant-based food.

I hope I made you curious and hungry for more.

Welcome to the show.

Bettina Campolucci Bordi

Retreat Affairs is recorded and hosted by Sascha Kaus.

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Sascha Kaus owns the copyright in and to all content of the Retreat Affairs podcast as well as in all transcripts of the Retreat Affairs podcast, with all rights reserved, as well as his right of publicity.

No one is authorized to copy, share or multiply any part of the podcast, this transcript or any other content on this website without written permission from Sascha Kaus.

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Sascha Kaus: Welcome Bettina? Thank you for being with me. Thank you for taking the time and doing this interview.

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: Thank you so much for having me. And so nice to see you.

Sascha Kaus: Nice to see you, too. It's been a while.

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: It's been a while. How long actually when have we seen each other last time?

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: I think it's been four years because it was the Mongolia trip.

Sascha Kaus: Yes, that's true.

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: And I met you. During… there was the the sort of premiere of the video.

Sascha Kaus: That was it.

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: At Lululemon.

Sascha Kaus: And you did the catering. Wasn’t it?

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: And I did the catering. That's true. Yes. Four years ago.

Sascha Kaus: And I remember it was delicious.

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: Oh, my gosh.

Sascha Kaus: I really liked it. I remember it was some… You had all these little things that you could take in your hand. And I remember something with cucumbers and this delicious paste inside. I was really, really creative. I totally enjoyed it.

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: Oh, brilliant. Yeah. I love doing canapés and that sort of food. It's really nice. You get to sort of play around with textures and what's available and sort of it's the opportunity that you have to sort of show the people the possibilities with plant based food.

Sascha Kaus: Yeah. And I also remember that you had everything really well prepared, so you had all your little boxes and just needed to put everything together. So I was just very impressed by your organisation.

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: Oh, my goodness. Yes, it was in a basement. So I had to have everything prepared because there was no kitchen. But that is sort of the story, the story of my life in times of retreat cheffing. You just never know. You never know where you're going to end up. You never know what your venue is going to be like. You never know what equipment you're going to have. So you kind of always have. It's always better to be more prepared.

Sascha Kaus: How do you feel about preparation? Is preparation something that's important in your kitchen? Do you like to be prepared for everything that comes?

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: I think. Yeah, definitely, I think preparation is key, and especially if you're catering to larger groups or if you're catering in different venues and countries, as you know, sometimes plans can change on a daily basis. You know, an outing is not going to happen because it's raining and then it switched to the next day. So it's always good to sort of be pre prepared. A couple of meals ahead, isn't it. And and also because you usually work with one or two assistants, if you're lucky you've got a team. So preparation is key I think.

Sascha Kaus: OK, there is the different parts of preparation. So preparing like a whole retreat, knowing everything that you cook or preparing for an event, how do you go about in the kitchen. Do you really do everything mis en place, preparing all the little ingredients, setting everything aside before you actually start to cook, before you go to the stove or the oven and then putting everything together?

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: I think for me, the more you can prepare, the better. So I do like having everything sort of chopped, ready, all washed and peeled so that when you are putting together the meal, it's almost like an orchestra, that you've got all your components ready and you're basically putting things into the pot or you're putting things into an oven. And then when you've got all your, as we call it, mis en place ready, you just put things together on a plate and out it goes. Also because food has to go out at the same time. It's not sort of. It's not like in a restaurant where you do this by dish, sometimes you have to do twenty plates of food or 30 or 40 at the same time, and people don't have a lot of patience, you need to make sure that it flows. And I guess one of the… I've talked about this a lot, but one of the sort of pitfalls of retreat cheffing is timing. To have everything ready for when people come out of yoga or when they come out of whatever class they're doing in terms of wellness is to make sure that you've got the food ready because people come out hungry and, yeah…

Sascha Kaus: I make that observation for myself. I have this friend who always quotes me on that. I'm always saying that when the kitchen looks like nothing has happened, the food is really good. Bettina Campolucci Bordi: Oh, yes.

Sascha Kaus: Yeah. And I mean, it can also happen that when everything is a mess and I have been totally creative and going wild in the place. It can be good. But when everything is like cleaned up, I had a time in between. I'm really focussed and structured and I can put everything in place. And then when the kitchen is super clean at the end, the food mostly is really good.

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: Yeah, I say I agree. That's a really good that's a really good point actually. I'll remember that.

Sascha Kaus: You're welcome.

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: I'll remember. Yeah definitely. I think it's really important. It's cleanliness and being organised is really important to me. I don't like messiness and sort of I don't know, it kind of it almost messes with my thought process if things are messy. And on retreat, I always wake up very early and I go into the kitchen by myself before any of the team come in because I like to have my one cup of coffee. I like to sit down and write a list or sort of the plan of action of the day and sort of get my head organised before everyone else wakes up, because all of the sudden the questions come and then you'll you've started your day. So one of the things that I do do on retreat is wake up very early. So I usually get up like five or five thirty, which is about an hour to an hour and a half before everyone else. Just to sort of have a clear head and know what I'm doing. And it is quite nice because everyone's asleep .

Sascha Kaus: And it is something that has always been a part of your life? Have you always been organised? Do you see yourself as an organised person? It's something that you have to train for. Have you learnt in the kitchen or is it something that evolved through the necessity of working in retreats?

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: Oh, my gosh. So this is the thing. I'm not a trained chef. I've had a lifelong passion for food. I've always loved cooking since I was a very little girl. One of the first things I learnt how to cook was I think when I was six or seven years old was pancakes. So I've had a lifelong passion for food and cooking. However, I wouldn't say I wasn't allowed to pursue it. But, you know, the option of going to chef school was not very appealing to my parents. And they were like, yeah, no. So the closest thing that I could actually get to into the kitchen and also I started working in restaurants from the age of 15. So I was doing a lot of front of house. So I studied hotel management. And in hotel management, you sort of go through every single position that would be in a hotel. So you spend eight weeks in the kitchen, you spend eight weeks doing service, you do eight weeks of theory. It's sort of the very traditional hotel management type of school. So you do eight weeks of work and then eight weeks of theory and then that's how it goes for four, three years. So that's what I did and that's my educational background. So I was front of house for many years, until about eight years ago. I was working at a retreat centre in Marbella in south of Spain and decided to co-found a retreat. And I was, I thought, brilliant. We don't have a chef. I love cooking, so I'd love to do the cheffing on this retreat. And we did one as a tester. I absolutely loved it and decided that the food was going to be plant based and gluten free because at the time it was really popular to do juice detoxes and these boot camp type of retreats, which I guess are still popular. But we wanted people to eat food and to eat lots of plant based and and gluten free. So it's kind of… I had to retrain my sort of classic cooking brain and cooking habits. And I did that through books, through cookbooks. And a lot of those authors were Swedish, actually. So one of them. Renée Voltaire she's an amazing Swedish chef and she's got a deli and she's got a product line and I still very much admire her. So those were sort of the first kind of books and experiences into plant based cooking. But it's all been through experience. It's not. The retreat cheffing thing, when I got into that, not many people were doing it and definitely not the plant based gluten free route either. It took at least three years of me doing that for it to really sort of take off and I guess is the right time, the right place. So it took off with the Deliciously Ellas and the Hemsley Sisters and it became popularised sort of with brands and everything, as you know, it's really taking off now.

Sascha Kaus: OK, and when it comes to learning and inspiration, I mean, you said that you have been trained in hotel management school. But what were your first steps into the kitchen? Into the exploration of food and deliciousness?

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: Oh, I come from a family that. When we went on holiday, we didn't go to museums or we didn't sort of look at the history of the place, we would go to restaurants or we would go to food markets for both my parents and both my grandmothers were amazing cooks. So my grandmother from Norway that lived in Sweden and I have a Bulgarian grandmother, all really good cooks. So I don't know. Food's been ingrained in me since I could walk and talk basically. So that's where my inspiration comes from and travel. I grew up in East Africa, in Tanzania, my first 11 years, and then I lived in Sweden for my next 10. So I travelled all over. It's just, it's something that's always been there. And cooking is a skill. Is one of the few things I always knew I was quite good at, so that skill set kind of I always cooked at school, I always cooked at home. And whenever we have guests, I would do the food rather than my mom or my dad. When I went to university, I would always cook with friends. If anybody had a birthday party, I would always do the catering for them. So it's just something that I always did. But no, I've had no official training. I did once I started doing retreat cheffing and really got into it and figured out that this is what I really want to do with my life and sort of found my purpose. I think you know, when you find your purpose, I spent a lot of my twenties wondering what I was meant to do, but knowing that I was meant to do something, but I hadn't yet found that something. And when I started retreat cheffing, it all sort of fell into place and I kind of felt I need to be doing this and it feels really good to do it, and I kind of followed my intuition and my guts and my heart rather than following my brain, that is usually the one that interferes with your gut and your heart because it tries to argue with your gut in your heart and going, why are you going to do that? The consequences of this or fear or so many things that your sort of brain argues with you of the reasons why you shouldn't do something or why you should sometimes. So I did Mathew Kenny then. He is a vegan chef. He's kind of pioneering in terms of methodology. And I did his courses. So when I sort of banana slid into retreat cheffing, I started training more and taking courses and one of the courses that I did was his and also flew over to L.A.

Sascha Kaus: And those first retreat experiences, what were they like? I mean, like what was your expectations going into that and what did you get out of it? What was the experience like that you had in those first retreats?

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: Oh, my goodness. So I know so many different things, it completely depends on who you have coming on retreats. I mean, my first experiences of retreat cheffing was really positive and people were sort of really pleasantly surprised by the food, even though 90 percent of the people that come on retreats are not plant based or gluten free. And I think it's the reaction that you get and sort of people's experiences and the journey that you take them on that make you go back to doing retreat cheffing, because as you know, it's hard work, very long hours. It's not as glamorous as everybody thinks it is, however, the reward is amazing when people react to it positively and you take them on a food journey, so in that sense is great.

Sascha Kaus: But I assume that… I mean, you mentioned earlier that you grew up with the Swedish and Bulgarian background. So I assume that in the kitchen that you grew up with wasn't necessarily plant based and gluten free. So how did you decide to offer that kind of kitchen on your retreat?

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: Oh, my gosh. Yeah, no, it's definitely not a plant based and gluten free world that I grew in. So actually, just before I started hosting and cooking on retreat's, I was diagnosed with polycystic ovary syndrome. And endometriosis, which are two sort of conditions that affect your fertility. And I had quite severe symptoms of both. And basically this was literally just before I started the retreat's and was told that the likelihood of me ever having children was, no, it wasn't going to happen for me. And I think I must have been twenty six or twenty seven at the time. So receiving that devastating news just made me A: look at my lifestyle and B: research, what I could do to do something about the conditions I had. At the time it wasn't really spoken about. There were a few books on the subject and I just started researching what I could do in a natural way because the only other options were to sort of go back on the pill, which regulates your hormones and, or to go on medication. And those were two options that I didn't want to take. So I did lots of changes in terms of my lifestyle and my lifestyle choices. Remember, I was in my 20s living in south of Spain. I loved a good party and I used to go out a lot and did that throughout…Yeah, I did that for a long, long time and sort of… Yeah, well, what any sort of young 20, 20 year old would do. Go out four or five times a week, smoked loads. I used to smoke a lot. Crazy. So I kind of I made a lot of tweaks to my lifestyle at the time and also started the retreats and started cooking plant based and gluten free and decided to go plant based and gluten free because I thought this is actually quite nice. I like the food, I like the lifestyle. Everyone else seems to be feeling really great after a week of it. So I made a decision there and then to go plant based on gluten free and realised that actually I was severely gluten intolerant and might have been for many years and some of my issues might have stemmed from that. And I took supplements. I started exercising. I mean, lots and lots of different changes. That's why I don't really talk about this a lot, because I would never want to say I went plant based and gluten free and therefore, you know, because I actually got pregnant seven months into this whole lifestyle change, which was something that we never thought was going to happen. So. I refrain from saying, I made this change and then that happened, there were many things that happened over the course of a time period where I just decided to change my lifestyle, basically. And yes, seven months into my new business, I got pregnant. So my eight year old daughter now has been a very big part of my life, of my business and my journey. And I was nine months pregnant when I did my last retreat, two weeks before she was born, waddled in the corridors cooking. And she's just been a big part of that. And it's been amazing. So, yeah, a lot of things have sort of trickled in and I think in the beginning the cooking, the plant based lifestyle, being gluten free, all of that was very much meshed into my life and it was very much one unit. And as times gone and as plant based and gluten free has become a business and it's become something that I do as a career choice. Those two things have had to separate a little bit because I've realised that not everything I recipe develop I like, but I recipe develop it because other people like it. Or because brands or people that I work with want something particular. Whereas before what I was showcasing on Instagram and on social media was very much my life and what I was eating on a daily basis. And now it's become… It is definitely what I eat on a daily basis sometimes, but it's also become a much bigger business. So the Bettina's kitchen branch obviously does recipe development for brands. And I do social media and we've got the books, Happy Food and Seven Day Vegan Challenge that sort of were born out of my passion, my new career path. I still run retreats. I do one or two in Bali and then I still freelance with Jules from Reclaim Yourself. And then there's the other branch, which is the Retreat Chef Academy, where I teach other people how to become retreat chefs. And that is speaking basically my experience from the last eight years put into one very intensive week.

Sascha Kaus: OK, that's a lot of different branches and experiences and I would love to take a little bit of time to get into each one.

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: Yes, of course.

Sascha Kaus: So let's get back to… You mentioned that you've changed your diet and you also said that you've written this book, The Seven Day Vegan Challenge. So what would you say? Like, what is the biggest obstacle in changing over to a plant based diet and also seeing that people coming to a retreat is also mostly a seven day period? Like what is the challenge of incorporating a plant based diet in this experience? And how is it received by people?

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: I think. Hmm, that's an interesting question, I think when I started out with retreat cheffing, it was very easy because most people hadn't tried it and you were taking people on sort of a food adventure. And I think as the years have progressed and I'm sort of gone along, I think there's a lot more food intolerances and there's a lot more preferences and there's a lot more preference sheets before people come on retreats. I've noticed. So it's it's more complicated now to cater for a retreat group than it was, say, eight years ago where it was pretty simple. Surprisingly, I think there's a lot more people that are plant based in terms of eating less meat. There's a lot more people that have cut out gluten. For the people that are neither plant based or gluten free - I think they've either had really good experiences or they come with huge judgement and are sort of like: Right, let's see what this is all about. Come on. And hopefully, I think, you know. I tried to cater for everyone and we've spoken about this before. For me, the expectation is not everybody is going to love it, not everybody is going to love my food, which is totally OK. However, what I try and do is I try and make sure that there's one meal that is somebody's favourite meal throughout the week. So I've got seven days and three meals a day to sort of try and cover as much scope as I possibly can, that's why I sort of incorporate I have a little bit of Asian influences, I have a little bit of Mediterranean Italian influences just so that I can hit somebodies taste, but at least for one meal. And they go, actually, that was really good. That was my favourite thing. And as an example, when I was at the retreat in Mongolia there was somebody there who had never had a fully plant based meal ever. So A: going to Mongolia, which is completely digitally free, digital, free and having vegan food in the desert for seven days was a huge challenge for him. But I think he had some Asian heritage. And I did these spring rolls and his partner came up and said, oh, my God, thank you so much for making something that is sort of Asian inspired because that was his favourite meal and it reminded him of home and his roots. So, you know, did he like all the other meals? Probably not. But he liked that one meal and it was his favourite. So that's how I like to approach it and sort of think about it and give people the experience. And also serve food that is comforting and recognisable potatoes is one of those things. I do potatoes in my retreat's. Lots of people categorise potatoes as bad. I don’t. They are comforting. Everyone loves them. Everyone loves a potato salad. It's just so recognisable. Or a roast potato or a chip or a rosty, whatever it is, or mashed potato. It's just something that's recognisable and it's comforting. And when you are in retreat, it's really important to make people feel loved through food. It's not a deprivation. It's not: What you can't have, it's supposed to be in my book. Look at all the options that you can have and have you ever had this before? And if you haven't, look, it's incredible and tasty and through easy methods and not overcomplicating things too much so that people feel inspired.

Sascha Kaus: So how do you see yourself? How do you see your role as a retreat chef in comforting people when they are in new situations, challenging situations? How do you see the role of yourself and the role of food in a retreat surrounding it?

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: I think the retreat food is a hug. A hug on a plate where you know, that you feel loved and looked after and you know that whatever is on your plate is going to make you feel better, and it's going to do that in several different ways from a nutritional point of view, from a taste point of view, from a sensation point of view. That's why textures are really important. I always say this. It's it's important to have food on the plate that's not one dimensional. So when you take a bite out of it, there's a crunch. And from a mental health perspective having texturised food is sort of instant gratification and have different layers, having a drizzle or a crunch or something, fresh. Colour schemes are really important to having something colourful on your plate because you eat with your eyes first. So I kind of view retreat food as a hug and also taking people on a journey, so you start off slow with what people are used to having and then you can take them on an adventure. So he sort of. It's a story line, so you start off with something that's very recognisable and then you take people on a journey. And I always recommend ending your retreat with a bang, with a really good breakfast or with an amazing dinner. The retreats that I've been on. Not all of them, but some is.. you know, you either run out of budgets or you run out of steam and then the last meals that you have, you're eating leftovers. And nobody wants to do that because people are scrambling to see whatever's left. And we don't want to waste anything, which I totally understand. And I think that you can incorporate and do that very easily. But, you know, it's nice to end the way that you started.

Sascha Kaus: Yeah, I totally agree. And for me, it's also about especially in the first night, I feel that I wanted to give the guests a feeling of safety so that they really have that feeling of being safe. I mean, they're coming to a new place. They're in a totally different environment. They're away from home. And depending on the retreat they are going to like some deep changes and they're going to face some challenges maybe going into practises that bring out a lot of stuff. And I mean, like retreats in general, they bring out a lot of stuff and then they're in a different environment. They don't know the place. They don't notice chefs or like the whole situation of like: Do I get enough? What is the food like? It's definitely a new situation. And it's like mentally, it's always a little challenge from people. And this is why I feel it's so important to make people feel safe with the first meal that you serve. And once they understood that they get enough and that there's enough variety and it tastes good, then throughout the next few days, they are much more forgiving. It's like maybe I have a day where I'm not like one hundred percent on point and something isn't the best dish I ever created. But that's OK. I mean, like, it's a little bit like being at home with your mother. I mean, our mothers have been great cooks, but maybe also they had a bad day and at every dish was the best that they ever did. But that's OK.

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: Yeah, it's exactly that. That's what I call a hug. It's a safety. It's a hug. It's everything is going to be OK. I don't know about you, but, you know, very often partners get taken on retreats, husbands. And they are like, oh my God, why am I here? I'm going to starve. It's going to be. And then what usually happens is that first night there's a big sigh of relief and it's like, oh, OK, I'm going to be OK. It's going to be fine. At least the food's good. I don't know about the yoga or whatever else I've been dragged to, but at least the food's going to be all right. Yeah, absolutely. I couldn't agree more. Very, very true.

Sascha Kaus: And how do you prefer working in a retreat environment? Do you prefer being on your own, in your own space with your team, or do you have kind of an open kitchen where everybody can come in and have a look at what you're doing? What is your preference there?

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: You mean retreat? Retreat people?

Sascha Kaus: Yeah, I mean, it always depends on the location because like, sometimes you have a retreat place that has like a family style kitchen where people can pass through and sometimes you have places where you are a little bit more separate. You're in the kitchen away from everybody and it's harder to connect with the group and you maybe see them only from meal times.

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: I think. Oh….. I think it's better if you're not in a family style kitchen. Because food is one of those things that is very community based, people are always interested in it. And what tends to happen then is that you get lots of people coming into your kitchen asking for different things and as in a retreat chef situation, that isn't always great. And it's a fine balance on how you handle those things, because people will come and say, what are you cooking today? Uhhh, you are cooking lentils. I don't like lentils. Do you think I can have something else? And then you say, you know, inexperienced retreat. Chef goes, OK, yeah, let's not give you lentils, I'll give you something else. And then that person goes and tells their friend, oh, look, you know, Sascha has organised this for me. I'm not having lentils. I'm having this. Oh, I will. I don't like lentils either. I want that. And then you sort of start a snowball and it's not a good situation to do that. So I have been in those situations in during the early days where people go down like this. Can I have that? It's, you know, as you know, unless you have a food allergy or serious issue with a certain type of ingredient, then yes, you can cater. But that's the thing with retreat cheffing, everybody gets the same dish unless you have an allergy towards it. So you can sort of you can get into a tricky situation. And also because most often you don't have a team or there's only one assistant - or two if you're lucky, it means that you're constantly in the kitchen cooking, preparing the next meal. So there's very little time to cater individually to people. So I would have to say I prefer the don't come into my kitchen approach, not because I don't want to be not social. And a way of connecting with people is, what we always do is one of us always sits with the clients on each meal so that everyone from the kitchen gets to experience and also get connected to the group that they are catering for. And that's a nice way of doing it. Another thing that I've done in the past is I've done Seva. So people have been able to sign up and one by one come into the kitchen and help and we've either had a chat while we've been preparing or people come and sometimes don't say anything. And it's quite meditative for people to come and prepare food with you. And it's a beautiful thing to do because they put the energy into the group meal which which can be pretty nice. So doing that is a nice way of incorporating involving people as well while doing workshops is another option. So yeah, I like being connected to the group, but in a in a in a way that isn't too interfering.

Sascha Kaus: Yeah, I totally get it. I mean I haven't really seen it from the point of having all these extra wishes. Maybe I was just lucky and having guests on my retreats didn't have like two many extra wishes or it was quite clear from the beginning. But I see the kind of extra work that it can create. I have to say that mostly I tend to have an open kitchen. I really love to have an open kitchen and be able to just exchange with people, be with people. But I also have to say that most of the times, like the main part of the work, is when everybody else is in class, when they're doing their workshops. So that's where I'm preparing. But when everybody's coming out of class. And this is the moment where I'm like super busy with reading everything and making the last adjustments, getting stuff out of the oven and preparing the plates or the bowls. So I'm like super, super tense and I want to do everything ready. And then just like so relax, coming out of class, having a nice shavasana, but also being like, super hungry, like, oh, having all these questions like what's on and how can we help you. And it helps sometimes a little bit challenging.

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: Yeah.

Sascha Kaus: I have to observe myself and I also have to manage how to coordinate what I need to do in the kitchen, but also maybe then coordinate people. So that's always a really, really challenging situation. Yeah. So, yeah, there are these different stages and I like definitely some moments where I'm totally happy to have nobody around and I really enjoy just being in my meditation. Doing what ever I need to do, I can listen to my mantras and I can just get creative and I don't have to explain myself, because that's also the kind of creative process. Like sometimes I'm just so much in a flow and I really don't know what I'm actually doing, but I just follow my intuition. And in those moments, it's like hard to explain because it's different than offering a workshop where you really know what you're doing and you have something laid out. But I also enjoy those moments where I can just go wild in the kitchen.

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: Yeah, I agree. And yeah, I agree. That's very, very true. Yeah, it is a meditative state. It's sort of, you know, what you're doing structurally and sometimes you need the headspace to just be able to to get that done.

Sascha Kaus: Going one more time back to preparation. So, I mean, like, how do you go about preparation? Do you have all your meals laid out before you go into a retreat? Or do you sometimes also just go with the flow and see what's available and what just feels right to do in that moment?

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: I think it depends on the job, so when I am cooking at retreats with Jools and Reclaim Your Self then I have to hand in the menu eight weeks before the retreats and it has to be, everything has to be on there. So breakfast, lunch and dinner and then usually a shopping list. I need to really plan carefully. Mongolia, for example, I have to make a list with all the ingredients. If I miss or forget something, I can't go to a shop and get it because we're in the middle of the desert in a yurt. So and we only get deliveries, I think, two or three times in the nine days that were there. So it has to be very specific and it has to be very, very, very organised. And still to this day, every time I send that list off, I have a mini anxiety attack thinking, oh, my gosh, I hope everything is on there. But usually it works out. This will always worked out during the times that we've been there. So that is one way of doing it where everything has to be super planned and super organised. And I know exactly what I'm doing on each day unless the plans change because the weather has changed and they are not doing an outing, etc.. My favourite way of cooking on retreat is the way I do it when I run my own in Bali, where I go to the market, I buy whatever is available. There might be a few things that I bring with me, like gluten free flours that I love using because that's more temperamental to buy in other countries. So I will bring that with me if that's what I'm doing in terms of baking and stuff. And then I'll go to the food market and I'll buy all the ingredients and then I will cook according to how I feel the group. And to me that is when the best food comes out because I have no idea what I'm cooking on a daily basis and it's beautiful because sometimes you get you know, I can tell very quickly by the first or second meal what type of group I'm catering to. And you really, really take them on a food journey throughout that week, and it's amazing. It's like total intuitive cooking. Obviously there's no budget because I look after that budget. So it's limitless. And I don't mind spending budget on food, but most of the retreats that I do are food focussed because we go and visit farms and it's the farms where I source all the produce from and it's beautiful. You see basically the whole process from seed to plant to your plate. And it's amazing. I also incorporate ceramics because they are the vessels that carry our food. So there's a very intertwined story throughout the week that has got to do with food because it's what I love doing. So that's that's my favourite way of cooking. But I have to say with Jules and her retreat's and because we've worked together for so long and I do the menus for them, but there is leeway on certain occasions. And it depends on the countries and places that we go to, like we were recently in Costa Rica and there was these amazing grandmas that worked in the kitchen, Rosita and Jali, where they taught me how to make Costa Rican empanadas, tortillas. So we totally incorporated that into the week and in a beautiful way, even though there was a set menu. So I sneaked in some extra bits. And that is for me, that's one of the core, beautiful things that happen through food is that exchange. They didn't speak a word of English, but we have this incredible food journey together in the kitchen where they learnt what I knew and I learnt what they knew. And we have this incredible experience. And to this day, I still receive messages from Rosita a year later. But there's this beautiful connexion that's been established. And it's the same thing with my team in Bali. It's the same thing with the team in Mongolia. They also don't speak a word of English, but it's this incredible team of women that I have the honour of cooking with every time I go and it's beautiful, we forage together, we wake up at three o'clock in the morning to go on a three hour hike before we come back and cook breakfast for everyone. And it's this exchange of experiences and food and… I love it, it's it's one of the most beautiful things is that connexion that you can have through the community of food. And it's it's a really nice community to be part of. It's even on social media. It's it's a very, very nice community that's very helpful and supportive. Lovely. It's not I don't know then I don't know if other communities are like that. I mean, fashion. I doubt the fashion is nice and cuddly. I think it's more I've no idea. I'm being very judgemental here.

Sascha Kaus: Oh, that's so true. I mean, you're really coming together and sharing food together. Your you share like one of the most important things in life together, you sitting down at the table exchanging food and that's bringing people together. And it's really important.

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: Yeah, definitely. And it's something that's so ingrained in us, you know, cooking over a fire in a group, having recipes passed down from one generation to the other. It's this vital thing that holds communities together. And it's so important that we hold on to that because it's disappearing and families don't eat together anymore. Families don't live close to each other anymore. So it's…

Sascha Kaus: Yeah, that's that's really something that I experience a lot in retreats that for many people it's like so unusual to come together, sit down at a table and really spend quality time with sharing food and not just rushing through a meal and being in a restaurant or wherever, but really having this kind of quality that you have and a family table and a family dinner. And like many people nowadays live on their own and coming together with others and spending time on food is so different and it's so powerful of coming to a retreat to really have that experience and share it with others.

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: Yeah, that is so true. And also the sense of community and I'm sure that you experience this, that lifelong friendships are formed on retreats with people. A lot of people come on their own or come with friends and you get to know. But sort of a semi large group of people, quite intense people for a week through your joint experiences, and it's quite a vulnerable experience and everyone keeps in touch. I've got the vast number of WhatsApp groups with with different retreaters, and it's amazing. It's so nice. And especially in times during like now. And it's also very nice to have people sort of dotted all over the world. So when you do end up going to places, there's sort of there's always someone.

Sascha Kaus: So you're quite active on social media. You're sharing a lot of knowledge, you're posting recipes and you've written two books. But then there's also something that you mentioned before. You started the Retreat Chef Academy, where you are sharing everything that you've learnt about retreats. So how did this come about? 50:36

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: Yes. So with a retreat chef academy, I think it was. It was last year that I realised… so with retreat cheffing, I've been doing that on and off over the years and some years more intensely and some years less, and it's one of the things that I always threaten to not do. And then I always end up going back to it for some reason or the other, I guess, because I love it. But I also have an eight year old daughter, so I am very aware to not spend too much time away from her because obviously with retreat's, you're away for seven days and sometimes more. Anyhow, I realised that I was getting a lot of phone calls and messages from people that were running retreats, but with other chefs asking me questions about: There's not enough food. How is this possible? What do I do? Or, my chef is doing this and basically sort of asking me for advice and I thought every every chef or should know this. This is kind of a given. And why is this happening? So I have this idea that maybe not everybody knows how to retreat chef, and maybe it is, as maybe you do need to have a special skill set and maybe I should start teaching that skill set. So I put together a programme. I stuck it up online and it sold out, fully booked. And I thought, oh, my gosh, OK, so I better get started and really write the programme. So I had a few months to do that before I ran my first one. And ever since then it's been fully booked. So I do four weeks the year. Unfortunately this year I've had to postpone. So I was meant to do one this week actually. So next year I'm doing one in February, May, September and November. And it's come about. That's how it's come about. And I have students from all over the world coming. That's ten of them on each course. So it's a small class and they get me. Twenty four, seven for seven days, basically, it's eight to nine hours a day. We have guest lectures that come in and teach different things. Jools is one of them, actually. She comes and does a talk from Reclaim Your Self. And we go through all the basics of retreat cheffing, but also plant based and free from cooking. So up until now, we've had students that have come in that want to be retreat chefs. Some people have wanted to open up their own businesses. Some people have had businesses that want to incorporate more plant based and free from food. I've had a few chefs that have wanted to sort of brush up on their skills because being able to cook plant based and gluten free now is quite essential for a business. So there's a mixed bag of students that come. And it's it's very intensive even for me, because we're together for a long time. But it's amazing because, again, it's almost like creating lifelong friendships. And as you know, retreat cheffing is quite an isolating, lonely thing because you're always working in different countries, you're always working in different venues. You don't have the support system that you would have, if you were just working in one place. So by coming and doing the Retreat Chef Academy you will also automatically get a support system of nine other people that support you throughout the journey. So we have WhatsApp groups for each. Each sort of bunch and people go on to do different things, and if somebody is doing a pop up, then you've got that whole group, including me supporting your new venture, or if you're doing retreat cheffing and you're stuck and you don't know what to do. You've got somebody to ask for advice. And I think that is so vital to build community and support around students and when you're in this industry, because it can be quite singular and it's flaky in the sense that you're working with different people constantly.

Sascha Kaus: And what would you say? What's the main misconception that people have about retreat cheffing before they come to the academy?

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: I think the misconception not just for the academy, I think the main misconception is that: It's this amazing opportunity to go on holiday. Like, oh, my God, you went to Costa Rica. That must have been so amazing. I mean, the reality is that we spend ninety nine percent of the time in a kitchen. You don't know what type of kitchen you're going to spend time in. And I think a lot of people think that it's a lot easier and it's like going on a holiday. But it's not. It's quite the opposite. It's really hard work and sometimes it's like, wow, your feet are going to fall off because it's a proper 15, 16 hour day. And if you're cooking in a yurt in Mongolia and it's 40 degrees, it's bloody hot. So I think the misconception is that you're going on holiday, but the reality is it's hard work. But I think the reward is greater. And if you're organised enough, you will also be able to experience your surroundings and be able to sort of experience the country that you're in, either before or after and sometimes during. So what I teach is budgeting, which is really important because you work with very small budgets. Most often. Timing's really important. Quantities, making sure that everybody has enough food and from a nutritional point of view as well. And then I teach all the tips and tricks of being able to cater to a large number of people, but with very little equipment, because sometimes you've just got a four hub conventional oven and your catering for 30 people and you've got one assistant. So how do you do that? It's like. It's like a puzzle, and you just need to know where to start and where to put the right piece and what place. And once you've mastered that, your life becomes a lot easier. So that is pretty much what I teach. And everybody gets a project at the beginning. And it's a country that I've done a retreat in. So it'll be and they have to create a menu and they have to do the budget and they have to create an ingredients list and then they have to present that at the end of the course, which is great. And it's so nice to see what people come up with. And it's inspiring. It's there's definitely some superstars in there that have done incredibly well.

Sascha Kaus: And this final project that you have, your students do are they're doing it on their own or they're teaming up and they do that.

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: They do it on their own. And the first day they get given the country that they're doing the retreat in. And it's a project that we do during class. So there is time allocated to finish it.

Sascha Kaus: And you mentioned that you're also teaching about budgeting and that for most retreat's, when you're working for others, the budgets are quite tight. But when you're cooking for yourself on your own retreats, you're much, much more free. So how big of a difference is this, actually?

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: Oh, it's a huge difference. Huge, I mean, it completely depends on what budget you're given on a daily basis, some budgets are really tight and it also depends on what country you're working in. So, for example, Iceland the produce is very expensive. You are very limited to what you're able to import, otherwise you have to pay a fee. So that is a complete sort of balancing act. So what can I bring into the country without paying import tax? And what can I get hold of in Iceland that is not crazy expensive within a budget that is very, very tight. So I say it's six pounds a day per person. Now, I think that's probably too much. But yeah, it's a balancing act. So completely depends on on where you are and what your budgets and possibilities are. So, yeah. And you need to figure out what you can get in Iceland. How much. Yeah, it's really important. The other thing is over ordering and spending too much money. If you're going to be hired as a retreat chef and you go over a budget with three hundred pounds, you're not going to be rehired.

Sascha Kaus: And when you're working in a different country, you're probably not going to be able to take all the leftovers home.

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: Exactly. And nobody wants stuff left over. That's also not an option. So, yeah, it's definitely a balancing act. Perishables, you know, how long things last? How big is your fridge? Do you even have a fridge? All of those things. There's so many elements. You need to be a magician, basically. That's your job title and a sprinkle of of being a psychologist because you sort of you need to be able to handle people's emotion. And there's a lot of emotion that is attached to food. You basically, when you come on retreats as a retreat guest, you are giving up that control for a whole week and you are letting yourself be fed by someone else. And for some people, that is a really difficult thing to get over, and they don't even realise that it's an issue until they come on retreat. That the food is going to be decided for you for a whole week. You sort of have a little bit of say, but not much. And that can come with so many things that pop up on retreats that you might think, oh, I'm going to be fine, but then you have no idea what emotions are going to sort of poke their heads out.

Sascha Kaus: When you see yourself as a magician, like, what's your secret sauce? What's your magic wand that you take to all of your retreats that helps you through difficult situations?

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: I think. It's really important to be flexible. And I think it's really important to be calm. Because. There will be situations that are unexpected, and if you can't take on those situations with calmness, then you're in trouble if you start panicking and you need to be flexible because some things are not going to work out. I can give you an example of Costa Rica is a producer of cashew nuts, so I based some of my menu on cashew nuts. Got to Costa Rica, there was not a cashew in sight. So every shop that I went to, every market I went to, the guys that were at the venue spoke to farmers and they were like, oh, yeah, no. Yeah. Costa Rica produces cashews, but not on this side of the island. So it's on that side of the island. So no, we do Kakao. Do you like some Kakao? And I was like, oh my gosh. So basically in that situation you can panic and go, oh my God, I based so much on cashews, there was a few things that based on cashews. But in that situation, you kind of have to go, OK, this is what's happened, right? I'm going to have to find a solution. So there's lots of coconuts, so you can use coconut meat, and they had blanched almonds, so I could use almonds instead, but those are the type of situations. Flexible and calm. And also that's really important with with your team that you're going to be working with. So in Bali, for example. If a mistake happens or if something happens… So another example of miscommunication, I sent my team a WhatsApp because we were running late and I said, would you mind chopping the purple aubergines? So I get back to the venue and there's a mountain of chopped purple cabbage. And I go.. that's not…. But it's purple. So in that situation, you can't get angry because Bali is a very calm. Very spiritual country, just like Thailand, if you get angry with your team, everything stops, the whole team stops. So you have to very calmly assess the situation and just be flexible and find a solution, because if you get angry, your whole kitchen is going to stop. So, yeah, flexibility and calmness, I think you just never know what's going to happen. And I think my experience with traditional chefs is that you're used to having equipment and things a certain way. But sometimes it can be difficult to adapt and be flexible and find solutions to things that are just not possible. And instead of spending time stressing about it, it's much easier to spend the time and find a solution.

Sascha Kaus: Yeah, I can totally understand it. This this has always been one of my main guiding principles. And I feel it also goes into the food. I mean, you can taste it.

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: Exactly. Yeah, you can feel it. Definitely. Yes, definitely. I mean, there's been there's been quite a few, you know, you just you have no idea what's going to happen and you might not think that's ever going to happen. But retreats are, it's movable. It's not tangible because it's people and people are unpredictable. So lots of things can happen.

Sascha Kaus: So how do you deal with situations when you get responses from the clients when the food is not to their liking?

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: Um, I think you've got to be kind and understanding to a certain point, but then also assertive and say, OK. I'm so sorry that you didn't like this meal, however, there is other meals coming up, and I hope that you enjoy them. I mean, you can't take anything personally. And it depends on how it's communicated and you've just also got to take into account that people are dealing with a lot of emotions and it might not be you, it might be something that they're dealing with internally and you just don't know what's come up in yoga, you don't know what's come up in meditation or if you have healers involved or anything like that. So I think first and foremost you need to approach things from a calm, calm manner, and I also always think that it's good to sleep on things and not react straight away because you most often have time to either find a solution or be able to deal with the situation.

Sascha Kaus: In contrary to the retreat work, you've already published two different cookbooks. How do you go about finding the recipes for the books? How do you go about doing the research and finding recipes and inspiration? I guess it's a different approach and you don't limit it to seven days. You have much more time. How do you structure your time and how much time do you take to write your books?

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: And it's actually much longer. It's a much longer process than people think. I mean, what usually happens is you you have a book proposal. That book proposal gets sent to different publishing houses, and that in itself can take quite a while to get a response. And then once the book idea gets bought by a publishing house, and then you have a year, usually from when you sign until it comes out, you've got a year to write it. So that whole process can sometimes take up to two years. So with Happy Food, I had all the recipes already sort of in my head, and it was in all the recipes that I've been cooking for clients and workshops and retreats. With The Seven Day Vegan Challenge. I basically what I do is I take notes, so I had lots of notes while happy food was already out. So when it was time to write the book, I already had a bunch of recipe ideas. So that yeah, but that process took about a year, so a little bit less time than Happy Food because I already had a publisher that I was working with and then I'm currently working on a third book. And that process is going to take a year because that book is going to be out next August. So. Yeah, that one I've had to start from scratch in terms of recipes, and it depends on what type of project that you're working on, but I already have notes for a book four which is a completely separate idea. So I've skipped the process of the note writing for Book three, but I've started it again with Book four just because it's so much easier to have a huge list of notes that you can sort of decipher and then place into chapters.

Sascha Kaus: And you mentioned before that you've done the training with Matthew Kenney, who's an amazing raw food, plant based chef. And you talked about another cookbook that has been an inspiration for you. You are very active on social media, and I guess you also follow a few other influential people in that field. So how do you feel about getting inspiration during that time of creating a book? Do you look at other things so you just stay away from everything and try to create everything from scratch for yourself?

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: So my process is to stay away. Because I don't I think that you indirectly get inspired by the things that you see, so when I'm in the book writing process, I try and stay away from looking at cookbooks. I've got hundreds of them. So I try and stay away from that process because you might not think that you are, but you are inadvertently inspired by other people's work. So I try and do that while I'm writing the book, I get lots of inspiration from eating out, travelling. Which has been something that's been impossible at the moment, so it's been a lot harder to write this third book than expected. So I get inspiration through experience and through travelling and doing retreats. And this year that's just been not possible in the same way. It's completely different to last year. I mean, last year, I think. I did 10 retreats, which is a lot for me, so, yeah, completely different story.

Sascha Kaus: And the whole situation with the lockdown in the virus, did it change in any way, your own way of nourishing yourself, um, to you by different stuff, to eat different stuff? Do you cook differently? Is there any change in your diet because of that?

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: Oh, I think obviously we're cooking much sometimes two, sometimes three times a day. We I don't traditionally shop in supermarkets. I never really have. So. With living in London, we're quite spoilt because we're able to get hold of really good produce, so I usually go down the route of ordering stuff directly from the source.

So whether it's an organic veg-box or certain suppliers. So I'll get my different elements of what we eat from direct sources. And then supermarket wise, there's not much we I mean, there's a few bits that we get from supermarkets, but not much on a weekly basis. So it's not really changed that much. I've always supported smaller and independent businesses and continue to do so, probably more so now than before, and sharing those resources as much as possible on social media so that other people can support those type of businesses as well.

Sascha Kaus: Yeah, that's a really, really good point. And beyond that, I'm also I just have the feeling that I want to nourish myself. I just want to give myself everything that I need. I mean, like before the pandemic, before all of this, I definitely had times in between where I was doing like Detoxes and Cleanses and yeah, felt more like I have to get rid of stuff. But now it's really that I feel like, OK, I just want to give my body everything it needs. I really want to nourish myself and allow myself to be fully satisfied with what I eat. It's not that I'm indulging on chocolate and ice cream the whole time, but definitely, I'm much more forgiving and also feeding myself in a comfortable way.

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: Yeah, it's being more forgiving and I think we don't realise that we are in a very stressful situation we have been for the last six months, so it's very important to be kind and gentle to yourself. In every possible way, I think this. Social media can be fantastic, but it's also sometimes a stark reminder of overdoing, you know, doing daily yoga, doing daily meditation, doing daily rituals, doing daily exercise, doing this, doing that, doing this. And sometimes I think for me, one of the biggest lessons in terms of what this lockdown and the situation has taught me is by not doing and actually completely and utterly stopping everything. And sometimes you need to stop everything to have time to reassess and figure out what it is you want to do or what kept you so busy before. And was it worth it? I think time wise, I was very, very busy with so many different things that it didn't give me the time to have a proper reset and really think about what it was I was doing. So from a silver lining point of view, I think it's been quite helpful for me to stop everything and reassess what I'm doing. Unfortunately, I've had to postpone things and it's had a huge effect on my business. However, I do see it as a learning curve and as a silver lining of really having the time to figure out what I'm doing and how I'm doing it. And making sure that I've got time

Sascha Kaus: So you're also quite connected in the retreat world, and what has been your observation throughout these last weeks and months? Is there still a lot of retreats? Do you still get a lot of requests? And what is the outlook for the coming months?

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: I think everything is on pause at the moment. All my retreat associated work is completely on hold until we see what's going to happen. There are retreats planned for next year. However, at the moment, things are on pause and I think everybody is sort of waiting to see what's going to happen in the new year. I think that wellness and retreats and self care is something that’s going to be so needed after what we’ve just gone through. The need for connexion, the need for healing, reflection, being with people, community experiences, all of that. I think it’s going to be needed more than ever. So I don’t think that is something that’s going to go away. I just think that it’s on pause at the moment. But people are going to come back to it and it’s going to be needed more than it’s ever been needed before, especially with what’s happening in terms of our mental health. At the moment.

Sascha Kaus: So what’s your outlook for the coming months? What’s your plan apart from writing the book? How will you spend your time?

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: Writing the book and then I’ve got to retreats booked in Bali for March, so I am hoping, fingers crossed, that it can go ahead. I’ve got a few retreats booked in with Jools Reclaim Yourself that are on a collaborative basis and are food focussed one in Ecuador and one in India. So really looking forward to doing those. I’m not doing as many retreats next year, but the ones I’m doing are going to be really special and needed. I think. It’s March, October, November. All the dates for the retreats. So those those are the plans and fingers and toes crossed that they will go ahead. Other than that, I’m doing the Retreat Affairs Academy. So the one that I was meant to do this week has been postponed until February. And I’ve got one running in May, one in September and one in November. So. Yeah, hopefully everything is going to go ahead and then apart from that, I still do recipe development for brands and I’m doing brand ambassadorships with different companies. So it’s, my work is still going. It’s just the sort of face to face and a lot of the stuff that I do where you meet people in real life, that that part of my business is is on hold, but the virtual and online stuff is still going, so I’m focussing on that until I can see people again.

Sascha Kaus: And if you could go, what would be your favourite destination right now, food wise? What is a kind of kitchen that you would like to explore or taste again, what is just tickling your taste buds right now?

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: Um, I would really like to be able to travel next year and do some research for my next book, not the one I’m writing, because that’s being handed in in December. But I’ve got a few places that I’d really like to go to. I would love to go to Israel, which can be quite controversial, but I would like to go for the food because the food is meant to be amazing and a lot of it is plant based. I think they’ve got the biggest ratio of vegans than anywhere else. So they’ve got a lot of plant based and vegan food. I would love to go to Oaxaca in Mexico. I would love to go to Georgia, which is maybe not something that people think about. They do a lot of plant based food. Yes, a lot of pickling, and I would definitely love to go there.

Sascha Kaus: Well, I haven’t been to Israel, but I have been to Lebanon, and I have to say was just like so delicious. And I really enjoyed the style that they have of having food. So having all these little different dishes as a starter, the mezze and most of them are plant based. So you can easily create a very nice menu, a very nice meal with different tastes and textures and flavours. And yeah, that was just like so beautiful. And most of it is plant based. So it’s so easy to go there and eat out as a vegan.

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: Yeah, Israel is meant to be like that. I was meant to go on a press trip to Israel and August, but I couldn’t make the dates. This was last August. Gosh, not this August. Well, I love Portugal. I definitely want to go back to Portugal. That’s also a nice foodie destination. And just in general, for a bit of sun, I don’t know, in so many places I want to go to. I really want to go back to Japan. I love Japan. I really want to go back to South Korea. So many places.

Sascha Kaus: When you go to Portugal, you got to let me know. I would hook you up with a dear friend of mine, Lisa. She was one of my main, um, guiding forces when it comes to cooking and retreats. I mean, I actually cooked the first retreat with her. She invited me to cook with her on a Jivamukti Retreat in Rügen a few years ago. And then we’ve been cooking together in the Jivamukti Canteen in Berlin. And she’s living in Portugal now and she has one of the most abundant gardens that I know of. It’s just mind blowing. Wow. Variety of fruits and vegetables she grows there. She’s doing a lot of fermentation. She’s doing a lot of pickling. And it’s just like unbelievable what she does. So if you’re going there, I definitely have to hook you up with her.

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: Yes, please. That sounds very cool.

Sascha Kaus: So before we coming to an end here, um, is there anything that you would like to share with people? Is there anything that you would like to give people at hand? Um, people that might be interested in stepping into the retreat chef business, becoming retreat chefs, levelling up their cooking game. Is there anything that you can share with people?

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: I think. The most important thing, whatever you decide you want to do, it’s really important that you just go and do it and you stop someone, because I think the biggest thing that holds people back is fear. And things having to be a certain way to be able to start, I have to do this before I can do that, so this has to be right before I can start that I think is really important just to start somewhere. So if it’s cooking, stop by cooking for your family or do a little pop up in your back garden and invite your friends and cook food, cook for people. If you just start somewhere, just do it. Even if you’re just going to get a few people on there. You know, my first ever retreat, we had two clients. Two clients, we had a small house in Spain, we had to invite four of our friends to pretend to be clients, but that was our starting point, you know, so we had six people in total and that was the first retreat, but it was the starting points of everything. And from then on the next retreat, we had eight and then the next retreat, we had 15. In the next retreat, we had 20. So you’ve got to start somewhere and don’t be afraid to do that and to make yourself vulnerable, because that’s how you learn and you are going to make mistakes along the way, but you can learn from those and just make things better the next time. That’s that’s how we move forward and get better at what we do. So, yeah, if you’re listening, just do it. Whatever you are thinking of doing, just go ahead.

Sascha Kaus: Thank you. Thank you for your words. Beautifully put. And it was delicious talking to you, Bettina.

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: Oh, thank you so much for having me. It’s so nice talking to you. And it’s so nice talking to someone else that has experienced the retreat world, because it’s a very niche thing to do, I mean, there’s not that many retreat chefs out there that have been doing this for a while. It’s a it’s a particular breed.

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: And I would definitely love for us to go into the kitchen one day and cook together and create some magic.

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: Oh, my God, I’d love that. You’re based in Ibiza?

Sascha Kaus: Yes, I am based in Ibiza. So come over.

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: You don’t need to ask me! I’d love to go to Ibiza. I have never been actually. That would be a nice place to go to. So if you ever come to London, let me know.

Sascha Kaus: Yeah, absolutely. And I’m going to check out a few more beautiful retreat kitchens here in Ibiza and I’m going to let you know and send you a proposal so we can get together and make something happen.

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: Amazing. I’d love that.

Sascha Kaus: So lots of love and sunshine from Ibiza to London. Thank you for your time and all your beautiful words. It was a pleasure.

Bettina Campolucci Bordi: Definitely talk to you very soon.

 
 
Sascha Kaus http://www.saschakaus.com
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EPISODE 008 | JAKE SASSEVILLE - A HOME TO AWAKEN CONSCIOUSNESS